Angel wrote the following to me in a reply to the initial post:
Regan,
If the Bible doesn't say anything about raising a godly family, then explain to me what Deuteronomy chapter six is trying to tell us?
I do not like it how some people single out denominations and make fun of their "slogans", as you say. They are all sincere people trying to do their best to serve God and you run them through the mud!! I thought you were better than that Regan.
Angel
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My reply was getting too lengthy, so I thought I would make it a post in itself.
Hi Angel.
I'm sorry that you think I am running things through the mud. What I am hoping to do is fix things. I know my impact isn't that great, but through people that read these posts we might be able to revive the churches we are in. That is my prayer.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe things like this slogan don't need fixed. Maybe that is what I am supposed to learn as a result of this discussion. Or maybe those who are so adamant against my revised slogan need to change their mind. I'm sure we all need to grow. I just don't know which of us need to grow in what way. The ironic thing is I expect the Holy Spirit to help all of us come to the right conclusion.
As for Deuteronomy 6, it tells us to teach our children. It is a great and true principle, but people will disagree all over the place when it comes down on how to implement it practically. It is in coming up with those concrete practical actions that I think we need to depend on the Spirit.
The Bible doesn't really go there. It leaves us with "(Deu 6:4-7 NASB) "Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! {5} "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. {6} "And these words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart; {7} and you shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up."
(Deu 6:20-25 NASB) ""When your son asks you in time to come, saying, 'What do the testimonies and the statutes and the judgments mean which the LORD our God commanded you?' {21} then you shall say to your son, 'We were slaves to Pharaoh in Egypt; and the LORD brought us from Egypt with a mighty hand. {22} 'Moreover, the LORD showed great and distressing signs and wonders before our eyes against Egypt, Pharaoh and all his household; {23} and He brought us out from there in order to bring us in, to give us the land which He had sworn to our fathers.' {24} "So the LORD commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God for our good always and for our survival, as it is today. {25} "And it will be righteousness for us if we are careful to observe all this commandment before the LORD our God, just as He commanded us."
Those are some great passages. They get me excited about God, His Kingdom, and raising godly children, but they do not tell me what I need to pray with Isaac tonight. They do not tell me whether I should spank him for not picking up his toys. They do not give me guidance on many of the situations I have to make decisions on in my daily life. They give me the general principles and leave me to figure out how to work those principles out in my life. Maybe I'm naive, but I think God, if I'm willing to let him, will guide me to the right decision on these things and not leave me to my own irrational thinking. I think we need to allow the Spirit to speak on issues like these where the Bible is silent.
I don't know if that is a good enough explanation of Deuteronomy 6 and how I understand it. Maybe I believe the Bible doesn't give concrete actions where it does. Maybe I am currently blinded.
Now I'm not saying the Bible doesn't give us principles. I don't think I've been clear enough on that up to this point. The Bible does give us all of the fundamentals we need to know. It is in working out those fundamentals and turning them into concrete actions that the Bible isn't as descriptive in. A book that would do that would be a neverending book. That is what makes God and the Holy Spirit such a genious concept. God saw that the Law didn't work the way He wished it would, so He decided to place the Law in His followers hearts. This was one of the big shifts in the New Covenant. No longer were we given a book of Laws that we could live out and feel we were right with God because we were right with the Book. No, now He expects us to go beyond the minimum detailed in the book. We have been given the Law in our hearts to guide us throughout everyday. We are called to live an all-out Christian life, not a life that just meets minimum standards that are described in the Law. We see that in the story of the Rich Young Ruler. So the Bible gives us principles and minimums. In it we also see some of the total demands of Christ.
(Mat 10:37-39 NASB) ""He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. {38} "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. {39} "He who has found his life shall lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake shall find it."
(Luke 14:33-35 NASB) ""So therefore, no one of you can be My disciple who does not give up all his own possessions. {34} "Therefore, salt is good; but if even salt has become tasteless, with what will it be seasoned? {35} "It is useless either for the soil or for the manure pile; it is thrown out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.""
(Mat 7:18-23 NASB) ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. {19} "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. {20} "So then, you will know them by their fruits. {21} "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. {22} "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' {23} "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'"
(Mat 12:50 NASB) ""For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother.""
(Mat 26:39-42 NASB) "And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as Thou wilt." {40} And He came^ to the disciples and found^ them sleeping, and said^ to Peter, "So, you men could not keep watch with Me for one hour? {41} "Keep watching and praying, that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak." {42} He went away again a second time and prayed, saying, "My Father, if this cannot pass away unless I drink it, Thy will be done.""
These are just a small glimpse of what it means to be a Christian. I'm sure you already believe that being a Christian is a complete submission of one's will to God's. We can't even keep one ounce of our own will. Every second of our day is God's. Being a Christian is nothing less than a total surrender of our life to God. There is no longer a minimum to being right with God. It is either all or nothing. The covenant has changed and with that change the Spirit arrived to guide us in living out lives of total surrender.
And, not to get ahead of myself, I really do live by and love one of the Church of Christ/Christian Church slogans. I did not mean the word slogan to be derogatory. I couldn't think of what to call them and "creed", which is what they almost are, would've been much more derogatory in my mind. My intention was originally to just write on the slogan I agreed with. But in doing that, I would have had to take tangents and talk about the other slogans and how they don't fit in with that slogan. So I decided to tackle the slogans methodically and deal with them one at a time.
The slogan that this post is dealing with is mainly the non-instrumental Church of Christ slogan. I'm sure the people who came up with it were good intentioned and that some of those who adhere to it today are godly people, but I do believe it leaves out any room for the Holy Spirit to work. Maybe someone out there can right a guest post and explain why we need to be silent where the Bible is silent. That concept seems ludicrous to me. I guess I might be the only one.
If it gets me in trouble with people to say that the Holy Spirit is active and should play a significant role in people's lives, then I guess I need to be in trouble because that seems to be the truth. The Holy Spirit is alive and wants to work in our lives! He wants to form us and shape us together so we will be His Kingdom here on earth.
I am not saying that the Holy Spirit and His promptings should override Scripture. I could understand the backlash if I was. I am just saying that the Holy Spirit should play a central role in bringing the principles we learn from Scripture into concrete actions in our lives.
(John 16:13-16 NASB) "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. {14} "He shall glorify Me; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose it to you. {15} "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you. {16} "A little while, and you will no longer behold Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me."
For now I will still stand by my revised slogan.
Where the Bible speaks, we speak. Where the Bible is silent, we let the Spirit lead.
I am open for discussion on why this might be wrong. But remember, you need to tell me the alternative and why it is right. I gave an alternative. Maybe I'm wrong. You can do the same.
Watch out for the potholes.
