More on Christian Exodus - The Dilemmas Raised in Attempting to be a Christian Nation or State

Well, at the risk of beating a dead horse I am going to talk some more about Christian Exodus. This time using the comments of Eric Vitz to springboard off of.

But before that it is a time for an announcement.

I will be away until Saturday. My diligent posting will probably end unless I have access to computers at Mount Vernon Nazarene University. I am taking the high schoolers at my church there for an event called Blast! The exclamation point is there's and not mine. It is different from all of the church events I have taken a part of as a church of Christer. They have a spiritual conference surrounded by a bunch of sporting and other events. They have poetry contests, basketball tournaments, weightlifting, etc. It would be a great idea for any Michigan Statewide Teen Convention planning committee member to take a serious look at this. I'll let you know what my thoughts on it are after it is over.

Last night, out of the blue, Isaac told Lindsay and I that he wanted to go to John Kerry's house. I thought it was crazy. After today I am thankful he said John Kerry instead of George Bush. I was sharing the story with Tom McCoy (my helper at the story) and one of my comic regulars, Mr. Butts. I did not know that Mr. Butts (that's his real name) was a die-hard Dubya hater. So I was able to hear to a man rant and rave about Bush being in Iraq for money and how the unions are going to sue the government to get their Social Security. I wonder what he would have talked about if my son had said he wanted to go to President Bush's house that time. He does some times say that.

Now onto Eric Vitz's comments and my replies.

"The Christian Exodus website states the problem as, "Christians have actively tried to return the United States to their moral foundations for more than 20 years."

Do you agree with this assessment of the problem? Do you agree that we, Chrisitans, have ACTIVELY tried to return our country to its moral foundation? Or, do you feel we, as Christians, have become too tolerant. As the Bible warns against, we - for too long - have not only lived IN the world, but have become a part OF it."

This is a struggle with me. As I said in an earlier post, I have not been asking questions Socratically. I really don't know where I stand. You are getting a glimpse at the inner workings of my mind while I deal with this.

It is tough to figure out government and laws when the New Testament doesn't directly deal with the issue. But I am a little hesistant to force unbelievers to have the morals of Christians. This comes from I Corinthians 5:9-13. "I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES." So the struggle is how far do we go in our quest to live in a moral society. Do we forbid people from having abortions to protect the innocent? How can we go about changing the nations stance. Right now, as Christian Exodus, points out, we have a "Christian" President and Attorney General and a Republican House and Senate. Republicans say they are against abortion. Christians, on the whole, are against abortions. So what more can we do to change the laws to protect the innocent? And there has been political groups, Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority and Ralph Reed's Christian Coalition, (although I feel they have given Christianity a bad name) standing up for the Christian positions on abortion. However, they might have lost some of their message when they also took a stance on gun rights. I'm sure Jesus would have been very concerned about the right to bear arms.

I really don't want to get into a fight with non-believers. I don't want to force them to live their lives the way God wants them to. Maybe that is wrong of me. What I want is to live my life in a society that wants to follow God's principles. I want to be able to take my child to the mall without driving by a strip (or should I say gentleman's) club, hearing music that is inappropriate, or seeing soft porn out the windows of Victoria's Secret.

But I agree that Christians have fallen prey to the American religion of intolerance being the greatest sin. Doesn't the Corinthians passage teach that we are to have tolerance to the world? However, we ignore that it seems to say that we are supposed to correct one another to the point of kicking someone out. I have only recently heard of one example of a church that has gone that far in loving a member of the body of Christ. That's only one time in my whole life that I have seen church discipline function properly if at all. We have many problems amongst ourselves that do need to be fixed. Maybe we should work on that before moving to South Carolina and starting a new nation.

"I would proffer, we win the nation one soul at a time - not "one state at a time". (Besides why South Carolina - it only has 8 electoral votes - why not California with its 55?) Ask anyone...we are not brought to Jesus because a church or state or group is like-minded - we are brought by our parents, or best friend, or someone who cared enough to share with us."

I agree that personal evangelism is the most effective evangelism, but we also have lost the concept of group evangelism. There are nations in the past that have become Christian because their leader told them to do so. I wager that many people were authentically converted in this way.

I assume their are reasons to choosing South Carolina. I would have to register to get on their message board. I didn't want to give them any of my information. Here are my guesses. Some states currently give more money to the federal government than they receive back. If a state was chosen that had that financial position, they would actually have more money to spend on roads, education, health care, and other infrastructure. Bob Jones University is located in South Carolina, so maybe a large number of Christians already reside there. South Carolina is in the south and still has an independent spirit. I don't know all of the reasons for choosing South Carolina, but they have a section on their message board dealing with the rationale of secession being possible.

"We also cannot look past how this "exodus" will be perceived. I will grant you, we cannot always be concerned with how others perceive us, but when that perception does more harm than good, perhaps there's a better way. If nothing else, this Christian Exodus site has sparked discussion which may prod many of us to stop allowing the world to mold us."

I am also glad of the challenge to my thoughts running across Christian Exodus has been. I do think that we need to always choose the road God has called us to. If it will be perceived badly, then God is big enough to deal with it. This might be simple, but I do believe it is true. We do need to be wise in considering what is the right course. J.I. Packer wrote, “Wisdom in Scripture always means knowledge of the course of action that will please God and secure life, so that the promise of James 1:5 –‘if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God who gives to all men generously and with reproaching, and it will be given him’ – is in effect a promise of guidance.” I do not believe the will of God in our lives is as elusive as we sometimes make it out to be. God wants to guide us down the right path for his glory. Is that not what David thought in Psalm 23:3? "He restores my soul; He guides me in the paths of righteousness For His name's sake." God is wants to receive glory, so he will guide us to the place where he will receive the most glory from our lives.

Well, I'm getting tired and have to wake up in 7 1/2 hours to drive four hours.

I know I have had gramatical errors. This one probably has more because I am too tired to proof read.

Watch out for the potholes and please pray that we all grow spiritually on this trip.