Proofreading has not happened. I spent one hour and forty-five minutes studying and writing this, and now I have to take my car to the shop for an oil change and head off to work. So please excuse any typos.
Following is an excerpt from further in, but I didn't want it to get lost.
I do know that many churches of today give sin a clear pass to reign in the human body. These churches do not confront, they gossip. These churches do not tackle sin head on, they manipulate. These churches do not love, they stand in superiority. This is not the church of Scripture and it is not the church I want to be in. I want to be in a church where I am helped to overcome my sins and am encouraged to help others overcome their sins. I don't want a fringe, a group of people who are not really committed to Christ or to the body at the church they attend. I don't want people to feel comfortable to come for years on end and not make a commitment to either be part of the body or not. I want a renewal of church membership. I want people to begin holding one another accountable. I want people to expect to be held accountable. I want to see the Christian life lived out here on earth in a group of people. Forget tolerance. Forget individuality. Forget depravity. I want Christ. I want his Spirit. I want to see it manifested in a group of people. John Wesley once said, "Give me one hundred preachers who fear nothing but sin, and desire nothing but God, and I care not a straw whether they be clergymen or laymen, such alone will shake the gates of Hell and set
up the kingdom of heaven upon earth." Let me be part of a church of people like this. That is my prayer.
Whenever anyone talks about the flesh and freedom in Christ (another subject that many in the church seem to misunderstand) Romans 7 becomes the rallying cry of the people who refuse to try to stop sinning.
(Rom 7:18-20 NASB) "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. {19} For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. {20} But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
And it does pose a problem with the rest of the New Testament. It even poses a problem with the verses before and after it. Maybe our understanding of that passage needs to be adjusted when that is the case. Let's check out the verses.
(Rom 6:1-2 NASB) "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? {2} May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?"
The fact that we would receive grace for our sin doesn't make it okay to continue sinning. He actually goes are far as to question whether an individual who has died to sin can still live in it. Maybe a more modern way of phrasing Paul's question is to ask, "If I continue to sin have I really died to sin?"
(Rom 6:5-7 NASB) "For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection, {6} knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin; {7} for he who has died is freed from sin."
We have only one life. That life has to either be a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. It can't be flip-flopping back and forth. If we become united with Christ in his death, our body of sin will be done away with. We will become free when we become followers of Christ.
What sort of freedom would it really be if we set a slave free but then allowed his former master to come, whip him, and boss him around. That would be no freedom at all. It would just be a relocation of where the slave lived. He would still be the former master's slave. You're either free or you're the former master's slave. You cannot be both.
(Rom 6:14-15 NASB) "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. {15} What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!"
Sin is no longer our master.
(Rom 6:17-19 NASB) "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, {18} and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. {19} I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification."
Our new master is righteousness. The presenting our "members as slaves to impurity and lawlessness" was a thing of the past. He used the past tense to describe when we did that. Using the present tense he tells us to present our member as slaves to righteousness; an act that will result in our sanctification. Or to use simpler terms it will result in us being set apart for what God intended us to be. We will be purified. We will become holy.
(Rom 7:5-6 NASB) "For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. {6} But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter."
Again, he talks about our time of sin as an event that happened in the past. It occurred "while we were in the flesh." It occurred then, not now. Now we serve in the "newness of the Spirit."
(Rom 7:15-17 NASB) "For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. {16} But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. {17} So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me."
(Rom 7:18-20 NASB) "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. {19} For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. {20} But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me."
(Rom 7:21-25 NASB) "I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. {22} For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, {23} but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. {24} Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? {25} Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin."
Now, it seems like he is contradicting everything he has said up to this point.
Hard Saying of the Bible had this to say:
"Paul's discussion of justification on the basis of God's work in Christ (Rom 1-6) shows that the whole person is reconciled to God-body, soul and spirt. Justification does not create a new moral or spiritual core within us which then has to fight it out with the rest of our being, our 'baser instincts,' our 'flesh' with its passions and desires. That idea rests on both a misunderstanding of certain words Paul uses and an inadequate hearing of Paul's intention, revealed in the structure of his argument...When Paul, therefore, contrasts a 'fleshly' with a 'spiritual' way of living, he is not speaking about two distinct parts of the total self, but about two possible life-orientations of that total self...Beside these considerations of Paul's terminology, the structure of the argument supports the thesis that Romans 7:7-25 is not a description of 'life in Christ.'...What Paul has given us is a description of the ultimate futility of life lived in external conformity to law, even though that law is God's law. Cleraly, Paul's encounter with Christ caused him to see his former life 'under the law' as bondage from this new vantage point. Now, he wants his readers in Rome, as well as us, to understand that legalistic religion leades to death. Only the grace of God revealed and enacted in Jesus sets us free from bondage to sin to experience the 'glorious liberty of the children of God' (Rom 8:21 RSV).
I do not know if I buy this argument 100%. Romans 8:9-14 seems to indicate, along with other passages, that we will still sin as Christians. Being led by the Spirit is the mark of Christianity, not having reached perfection. The Spirit will help us attain perfection, but I don't know if that will happen on this side of the grave.
I cut the following section out and pasted it at the beginning. This is where it came from in the context of the discussion.
I do know that many churches of today give sin a clear pass to reign in the human body. These churches do not confront, they gossip. These churches do not tackle sin head on, they manipulate. These churches do not love, they stand in superiority. This is not the church of Scripture and it is not the church I want to be in. I want to be in a church where I am helped to overcome my sins and am encouraged to help others overcome their sins. I don't want a fringe, a group of people who are not really committed to Christ or to the body at the church they attend. I don't want people to feel comfortable to come for years on end and not make a commitment to either be part of the body or not. I want a renewal of church membership. I want people to begin holding one another accountable. I want people to expect to be held accountable. I want to see the Christian life lived out here on earth in a group of people. Forget tolerance. Forget individuality. Forget depravity. I want Christ. I want his Spirit. I want to see it manifested in a group of people. John Wesley once said, "Give me one hundred preachers who fear nothing but sin, and desire nothing but God, and I care not a straw whether they be clergymen or laymen, such alone will shake the gates of Hell and set
up the kingdom of heaven upon earth." Give me a church of people like that and we will change a town. Again, I digress.
(Rom 13:12-14 NASB) "The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand. Let us therefore lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. {13} Let us behave properly as in the day, not in carousing and drunkenness, not in sexual promiscuity and sensuality, not in strife and jealousy. {14} But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh in regard to its lusts."
If we have put on Jesus Christ, then there is no room to give into the lusts of the flesh. If we took only Romans 7, everyone would be able to be complacent in their sins. But the rest of Romans really puts the hammer down. We are called to a sinless life because we are no longer living our own life but the life of Christ.
(Rom 8:1-4 NASB) "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. {2} For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. {3} For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, {4} in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
This is interesting. The Spirit has set us free from sin that leads to death. So, obviously, there is no condemnation because we are not sinning. The Law could not free people from sin. That was its failure. But that which the law could not do, God did through His Son. Now we do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. If we we're walking in the Spirit, will we be walking in sin? Or do we sin when we step out line with the Spirit?
(Rom 8:5-8 NASB) "For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. {6} For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, {7} because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; {8} and those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
Here is further explained what Hard Sayings of the Bible was saying about Romans 7. There are two different lives available, one with our flesh and one with the Spirit. If we live by our flesh, we will not be able to please God.
(Rom 8:9-14 NASB) "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. {10} And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. {11} But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. {12} So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- {13} for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. {14} For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."
Our flesh has been killed when we sat aside our life and took on the life of Christ. We now live Christ's life through us guided by the Spirit. The Spirit is the mark of Christianity. This Spirit helps us to put to death the deeds of the body. I notice here that the deeds of the body are not already put to death, but are in the act of being put to death. We are not perfect yet, but the Spirit is working to make us perfect. And those of us who are being led to perfection by the Spirit, we are brothers and sisters. That is the mark of Christianity.
